Great find; thanks for posting [I never even knew OF this record]
Speaking of Tony's ride cymbal, what do you think of the 1996 'Arc of the Testimony', Bill Laswell's electric concerto for Tony? (excellent 2021 24 bit remaster by M.O.D. Reloaded)
Hi Chuck-- I'm a fan Arc of the Testimony; I admit I don't listen to it 'often', but it knocked me out when Jaimeo Brown showed it to me in college. The first track especially; Laswell certainly understood something about the emotion of Tony Williams' music. Thanks for the question!
Tony Williams did a few gigs with Jan Hammer again in 1991 or thereabouts. There was a Down Beat review (or maybe it was Musician?) but no record came of it. I think I have a boot of one of them somewhere.
Hadn't heard (of) this record, tracked down the CD reissue, thanks! I find your missing link argument very intriguing and am thinking about it in conjunction with Ethan Iverson's interpretation of Jeff Watts bringing Cobham influence into the early Wynton Marsalis bands.
Can you help non-drummers understand how Tony Williams's sound changed after the 1960s, what I hear as a "heavier touch"? Does his technique change, or his equipment, or is it the larger environment of playing with amplification? Or is it more about the shifting musical context more generally (Stax, Muscle Schoals, Syl Stone, James Brown)? (All of the above?)
You caught me! My understanding of the nexus of VSOP/Wynton-Terence Blanchard/Tony Quintet as a continuum comes from hours of being on a bus and talking to Ethan!
Very brief synopsis of Tony Williams' changed sound: basically, all of the above. Starting in 1971, he began playing bigger and bigger bass drums, finally arriving at 24x16 bass drum in 1974 or thereabouts, a change from his classic 18x14 bass drum with Miles Davis. His tomtoms got bigger as well-- not sure the dimensions off-hand-- and he had more of them; two mounted toms and three floor toms by 1976. He used Remo CS Black Dot heads on the top and bottom of all his drums (except the bottom head of his snare); these were thicker, heavier heads that gave a good drum a warm tone, but had to be hit hard to respond (thick head hit soft means the head vibrates less, which equals less sound; thick head hit hard means it vibrates a lot, therefore more sound). He also starting using thicker, heavier sticks, and added two more crash cymbals.
Basically, he turned his volume WAY up, which makes sense given that he was playing with electric guitar, electric bass, and Fender Rhodes at the time; he often gave that as his reason when asked-- that he simply couldn't hear himself, and needed to get louder. So there it is, all of the above, everything you suggested I think is a factor: technique (hitting harder), equipment (new big drumset), playing with amplified instruments, and a shifting musical context (that's why he was in bands with amplified instruments!)
There's a lot more to this-- Sonny Rollins and McCoy Tyner were on similar journeys at the time, turning up the volume on their music and insisting that acoustic jazz need not be drowned out by amplifiers; to Tony it connected to complex issues of agency. Basically, he couldn't figure out why the drums couldn't be the thing people listened to, why the drums are turned down so that somebody else could be heard. We start entering the realm of speculation, which quickly becomes a realm of judgment, and neither realm appeals to me! I've probably gone too far as it is, but the important thing for me is-- Tony sounded AMAZING his entire career. Everything after that is taste.
Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it (of course getting an “all of the above” is the most gratifying answer)!
The “everyone else is turning up the volume” aspect is intriguing. If everyone is turning up it’s not just a question of volume, but of timbre or tone too. Maybe Wynton’s quintet was 60s Miles with more volume, but Tony’s quintet sounded different. (I guess some of this is the recorded sound too.)
Wow; thanks for the dive into this period of Tony's music, and thanks for the "head's up" about *Play Or Die*--I certainly had never heard of it at al!!
Great find; thanks for posting [I never even knew OF this record]
Speaking of Tony's ride cymbal, what do you think of the 1996 'Arc of the Testimony', Bill Laswell's electric concerto for Tony? (excellent 2021 24 bit remaster by M.O.D. Reloaded)
Hi Chuck-- I'm a fan Arc of the Testimony; I admit I don't listen to it 'often', but it knocked me out when Jaimeo Brown showed it to me in college. The first track especially; Laswell certainly understood something about the emotion of Tony Williams' music. Thanks for the question!
Tony Williams did a few gigs with Jan Hammer again in 1991 or thereabouts. There was a Down Beat review (or maybe it was Musician?) but no record came of it. I think I have a boot of one of them somewhere.
Yes, killing video of it too! Perhaps TW's final fusion outing? Certainly his final fusion tour. Thanks for reading!!
Hadn't heard (of) this record, tracked down the CD reissue, thanks! I find your missing link argument very intriguing and am thinking about it in conjunction with Ethan Iverson's interpretation of Jeff Watts bringing Cobham influence into the early Wynton Marsalis bands.
Can you help non-drummers understand how Tony Williams's sound changed after the 1960s, what I hear as a "heavier touch"? Does his technique change, or his equipment, or is it the larger environment of playing with amplification? Or is it more about the shifting musical context more generally (Stax, Muscle Schoals, Syl Stone, James Brown)? (All of the above?)
You caught me! My understanding of the nexus of VSOP/Wynton-Terence Blanchard/Tony Quintet as a continuum comes from hours of being on a bus and talking to Ethan!
Very brief synopsis of Tony Williams' changed sound: basically, all of the above. Starting in 1971, he began playing bigger and bigger bass drums, finally arriving at 24x16 bass drum in 1974 or thereabouts, a change from his classic 18x14 bass drum with Miles Davis. His tomtoms got bigger as well-- not sure the dimensions off-hand-- and he had more of them; two mounted toms and three floor toms by 1976. He used Remo CS Black Dot heads on the top and bottom of all his drums (except the bottom head of his snare); these were thicker, heavier heads that gave a good drum a warm tone, but had to be hit hard to respond (thick head hit soft means the head vibrates less, which equals less sound; thick head hit hard means it vibrates a lot, therefore more sound). He also starting using thicker, heavier sticks, and added two more crash cymbals.
Basically, he turned his volume WAY up, which makes sense given that he was playing with electric guitar, electric bass, and Fender Rhodes at the time; he often gave that as his reason when asked-- that he simply couldn't hear himself, and needed to get louder. So there it is, all of the above, everything you suggested I think is a factor: technique (hitting harder), equipment (new big drumset), playing with amplified instruments, and a shifting musical context (that's why he was in bands with amplified instruments!)
There's a lot more to this-- Sonny Rollins and McCoy Tyner were on similar journeys at the time, turning up the volume on their music and insisting that acoustic jazz need not be drowned out by amplifiers; to Tony it connected to complex issues of agency. Basically, he couldn't figure out why the drums couldn't be the thing people listened to, why the drums are turned down so that somebody else could be heard. We start entering the realm of speculation, which quickly becomes a realm of judgment, and neither realm appeals to me! I've probably gone too far as it is, but the important thing for me is-- Tony sounded AMAZING his entire career. Everything after that is taste.
Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it (of course getting an “all of the above” is the most gratifying answer)!
The “everyone else is turning up the volume” aspect is intriguing. If everyone is turning up it’s not just a question of volume, but of timbre or tone too. Maybe Wynton’s quintet was 60s Miles with more volume, but Tony’s quintet sounded different. (I guess some of this is the recorded sound too.)
Great post. Elements of the 2nd and 3rd tracks remind me of Rush and have me imagining a “what if” version of Rush with TW on drums.
Totally! Nice call Rob! Think Mr. Williams praised Rush in DB Blindfold Test, yes?
Wow; thanks for the dive into this period of Tony's music, and thanks for the "head's up" about *Play Or Die*--I certainly had never heard of it at al!!
Thanks Mr. Harris! You were there swinging with Mr. Williams and Mr. Sonny Rollins-- glad I could contribute!
Fantastic! Thanks so much for posting this Vinnie!
I tought I was the only one who liked his singing. He sounded so vulnerable. Here he really gained some power.
Thanks for posting! I hope the legendary Wildlife sessions with Laura “Tequila” Logan get propper release one day.
Right? Tons of power! He's a SINGER! Thanks Stefan!
thanks! I've really enjoyed all of your posts.
I've always liked his singing on the first lifetime record too.
Yes, me too. It's brave and musical.